Who is God any way?

[Tom Haws]

it's still "my people" - and that's important to me,

All other considerations aside, that does it for me. It's my people. It's my church. It's my corner of the garden. It's my job. It's my lot. To enjoy!

[Euhemerus]

This all makes since, but I still do not see how church attendance is a benifit. If spiritual uplift comes from other sources, and I am not finding that when I attend, you can serve in or out of the church whether you go on Sunday or not. What do you get out of church attendance?

Ray covered it very nicely. I echo his sentiments. Let me respond a bit to some other things you said:

Why is the type of service you are talking about more possible at the Mormon church than anywhere else?

As Ray said, it's not. Note that no one on this forum (at least not the admins) are going to try and do missionary work to get you to stay. If you want to leave the church because there are just as many other good options outside the church, that's fine. I would fully support you in such a thing. All I'm saying is that I have chosen to make Mormonism work for me. Part of that is cultural, pressure from family, a sense of belonging to "my people," etc. But the more important reasons (which don't come until you turn inward) are that I get to serve others, and grow spiritually in an environment that I was raised in. Certainly a part of that answer is no more complicated than the fact that I have been conditioned to live in this community, and hence feel most comfortable here. That's fine with me, I have no issue with that.

Part of what led me to this place is that I felt comfortable, certain, and "knew" the Gospel to be absolutely true. I was as orthodox as they come. Upon my faith crisis I recognized that this smugness was a huge mistake and I am convinced I don't want to repeat such a mistake. So how would one do that? Well, one good technique is to surround yourself (periodically at least) with people with whom you disagree. That way you are exposed to alternate ways of thinking. Since I now find myself disagreeing with many things culturally, and theologically within the church, it is a relatively good place for me to be exposed to alternate ideas. Additionally, as Ray pointed out, I have the opportunity to serve those who don't see things the same as me, and I get to learn to love those with whom perhaps I don't agree. Isn't this the very essence of the Gospel Christ taught? If we only serve those whom we already love and agree with what have we profited? Everyone does that!

But note that these are just ways of looking at the issue. They aren't necessarily the right answers, or the only answers. I suspect it may appear as if we are apologists. I expect that. On many other issues it will appear as if we are apostates.

[Euhemerus]

This all makes since, but I still do not see how church attendance is a benefit.

Oh one more thing. Seriously, in answer to this question, if it doesn't benefit you then don't go. I don't mean that flippantly, but honestly and seriously. It's not worth wasting your time if you're not getting any benefit from it. I don't think anyone here believes you'll go to hell if you miss church, or even decide to never go again. It's your choice.

What I found, is that I missed church when I didn't go. I honestly suspect much of that is just from my upbringing, but nevertheless, I miss church when I don't go. That tells me that I gain something by going (even if it only is satisfying my preconditioned behavior), even if I can't quite put my finger on it.

[Gail]

Thanks for the discussion Euhemerus and Ray. I do love the church, and I know I am Mormom in the deepest part of who I am. I am really trying to figure out how embracing that part of who I am works. You both are a great source of input.

[Euhemerus]

In the vein of this great discussion I'd like to give an example of what I mean when I say "my people." I recently moved to the other side of the country. Things are different here that's for sure. I feel a bit alien when in my new environment interacting with new people. But I started carpooling with the Bishop of my new ward. Despite the fact that we didn't talk about church per se, I felt a kinship with him that I didn't feel with many others. It's not even that we saw things the same way. But we do share something that represents what (the best of) Mormonism is all about - loving/helping/serving others.

The difference between riding with him (my Bishop) and riding with my other carpool buddy is very pronounced. Both men are great, and represent Christian ideals, but I felt a kinship with my Bishop.

Likely, some may say that this is because we are part of the same community. Sure, of course that's the most likely explanation. My only response is - doesn't matter to me. This is one of the reasons I want to remain LDS - I feel at home amongst "my people."

[HiJolly]

Gail:
I am not saying these other assumptions are true, I am asking how do we know until God tells us directly?
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As a BIC LDS member, I was taught who God is, and I believed it. It gave me something to focus on, someone to personally address in prayer and in belief.

Then I began to actually interact with God, and so far there is not a perfect correspondence between what I am experiencing, and what I was taught. Nevertheless, the encounters I have with God are clearly and profoundly within the environment of the LDS Church (ie, being confirmed a member; sitting in Sacrament meeting; contemplating in the Temple). So that's something.

OTOH, none of my encounters are specific to the Church -- they are revealing to me various attributes of Godliness, but not specifically about the 'truth' of the Church (my first encounter was an exception to this, but OTOH I was only eight years old at the time--- something I consider to be relevant) or the Book of Mormon, for example.

So in faith, I accept as believable and possible the attributes and nature of God as I have been taught all along, while at the same time only *knowing* what I have experienced, myself. Any contrasts between the two are grist for the thought mill of my mind.

HiJolly

[Brian Johnston]

I love how you describe reconciling that paradox HiJolly. That was great. Thanks.

[Gail]

HIJolly,

Well put. What is BIC and OTOH?

Thank you,
Gail

[Ray Degraw]

BIC = Born in Covenant

OTOH = On the other hand

[Gail]

ray,
thanks I will likely ask more.